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CEO Eric Grindley: Shopper Data from 1,300 Mattress Firms, Sleep Shops and Furniture Stores

Shoppers are only going to one mattress store.

It’s true. Shoppers are deviating from traditional norms and if you’re not paying attention you’re going to lose.

In this episode, Mark Kinsley hosts Esquire Advertising CEO Eric Gindley who gives us his insider, data driven information about mattress shoppers collected from over 1,300 mattress and furniture stores. What are some of these date pieces?

1) In a surprising finding, data shows that 88% of mattress shoppers in 2023 are only visiting one store before making a purchase; this number jumped dramatically from 57% in 2022.

2) According to Grindley, the biggest piece of advise is to jump on new movers fast. New homebuyers are much more likely to buy a mattress after they move rather than before so use digital channels like streaming TV and social media to reach new movers right when they arrive.

And these are just the tip of the iceberg!

Listen or watch to get real insights about the new shopper journey and get a taste of what Eric will be offering at Sleep Summit!

Haven’t bought your Sleep Summit ticekts yet? Hurry! They’re selling out fast! Get them here!

FULL TRANSCRIPT

Mark Kinsley: The CEO and founder of Esquire advertising is here with some surprising data about mattress shoppers that you need to know about the sleep summit show begins right now.

Mark Kinsley: Welcome to the sleep summit show. I’m your host, Mark Kinsley. So excited to have my friend, Eric Grindley. He’s the CEO and founder of Esquire advertising.

This company has made the Inc 500 list three times. Is that right, Eric?

Eric Grindley: Sounds about right. Yeah,

Mark Kinsley: about right. Three times. That is no easy feat. You’ve grown this company, uh, to, to be an amazing business with wonderful people who many of whom I know, and you focus on really data driven. Insights that drive marketing for furniture and mattress retailers and multiple industries.

But you and I were talking, I’m like, we have to put this on the show because your team gathered up data from 1300 mattress firm stores, sleep shops, and furniture stores across the United States. And you started looking at some of these signals that consumers were throwing off that really caught your attention.

So before we go too far, I want people to understand a little bit about Esquire and about how you gather the data and about what you do.

Eric Grindley: yeah, sure. Uh, you know, and thanks for having us. Um, you know, like, so we obviously like, look, you know, what we do throughout the industry, we’re framing up all of these individual locations throughout the country. Um, so our technology can see down to a single meter level who’s out in the world and shopping, right.

Um, after we capture them shopping, we match them back to their household address so we can better understand who they are. Matching to their individual demographics and then use this to, you know, power ad campaigns, provide marketing and analytics to stores, show you where your competition is and everything.

Um, and so last year, one of our data scientists was, you know, doing some work just looking into like what was going on at mattress firm stores around the country and, and how the consumers were interacting. And, and he noticed some surprising statistics with regards to like. Cross shopping and, um, and that there was really the sort of seemed to be this focus where like people started only shopping at one location.

And so if, if you remember, um, back when COVID happened prior to COVID, the average customer was shopping in about six stores on average and during their shopping experience during COVID that went way down, it went all the way back down to like one point something. And I forget the exact figure, but it was under two, which was a big shock.

And then when things started to reopen, obviously we saw. You know, it was still slow to recover, but we started to see at least a little bit trying to go towards the normal. And then in like 2021, we thought for all intents and purposes, like it was back to normal. We had saw that like cross shopping had returned to like the mid fours and mid fives, um, meaning they were shopping at four or five stores.

And so we stopped tracking it and it just so happened that he was like looking into just seeing what was going on. And he noticed that it was starting to happen again. That. Cross shopping was slowing. And so he expanded out the data set. He started looking at mattress stores around the country. So he tracked this for all of 2022.

And, um, at first he was just looking at mattress stores, um, and just seeing what the mattress store customer was doing. And so across 2022, 57 percent of customers. We’re only visiting one location now they might visit that one location multiple times, but they were only visiting one singular location.

And that was pretty significant just in and by itself, um, to see that over half of the customers over there, weren’t going out and shopping around. They weren’t cross shopping and asking and looking to see if they get a better deal somewhere. They were only shopping at this one mattress store location.

And so when we were talking about doing this podcast with you, I asked him to just go through and update it and give us like the latest and greatest on the data. And so he looked at the 2023 numbers for those exact same locations throughout the country, and that’s where it really got crazy is that this number of 57% only shopping at one location shot up to 88%.

So, you know, it’s a question of like, why, like why are customers suddenly going back to only shopping at one location again? Why are we suddenly seeing this massive decrease in cross shopping? Because this is a big question and something that needs to be addressed by all retailers that are out there. If you’re in the sleep industry, because basically what this data is telling you is that if you’re not a part of the conversation from that first interaction, or you’re not doing something specifically to attract these people, um, after they visit that, that mattress store the first time to bring them over to you.

You’re never going to be a part of the conversation. You’re never going to have an opportunity to get that customer. And so, you know, the question becomes why, which obviously like, I can’t mean you can obviously discuss that and, and come up with some ideas of why. And I have some ideas in my own head, but, um, but ultimately like this is a massive statistical change and it almost brings us back to those, you know, early COVID open numbers where like, you know, we’re talking about customers only shopping at one singular location and then only visiting on average.

You know, um, two times, you know, like, so, you know, they’re, they’re visiting that store, they’re going away and then they’re coming back to that exact same store and then they’re going away. Now, obviously I don’t know if these people are buying or not, or if they’re buying online or if they’re exiting the market.

Um, but you know, for all intents and purposes, they’re only shopping at one store.

Mark Kinsley: So let’s isolate the data briefly. So we’re talking about the numbers from 2022 to 2023. And so from 2022 to 2023, it goes from 57 percent of people shopping at one store to 88 percent of people. So basically everybody is now only shopping in one store. Is that data only isolated to mattress stores and sleep shops, or did that data set include furniture stores where they had mattress departments?

Eric Grindley: Yeah. So like we didn’t look at, um, uh, the, whether or not the furniture store customer was only doing one visit, um, which we’re going to obviously run that now after seeing this data. Um, but what we looked at was if the mattress store customer did in fact go to a furniture store after the fact, and it was really interesting is that if you go into a mattress store, you’re actually four times more likely to be seen at a furniture store in the future.

Um, as compared to going to another mattress store. Right. So, um, they’re going into a sleep shop and then they’re four times more likely to end up at a mattress or at a furniture store, but they’re not going to any other sleep shops. Right. So, um, it’s a, it’s a weird thing. Um, and, uh, you know, they either means that.

These furniture stores are, you know, making more of a name for themselves in the mattress space, which is obviously concerning if you’re a mattress store, um, or, you know, it could indicate that they’re buying their mattress at that first store that they go to. And then they’re outfitting the rest of their home at that furniture store.

Um, but overall, um, you’re seeing a decrease in cross shopping across the board. And so I don’t expect to see that big of a change. And what’s going on from a cross shopping perspective in the furniture stores, just because even when we did this during COVID, it was, it was, uh, pretty much universal what was going on in the mattress stores was also going on in the furniture stores.

Um, and so I expect that the data will show about the same.

Mark Kinsley: And I think we can throw out a bunch of guesses as to why so many people are only visiting one location. Uh, somebody that’s maybe on the, on the internet side of things might say, well, people are coming in armed with a lot of information. They’ve done all the research ahead of time online. They’ve checked prices and they’re coming in to make a purchase.

And they don’t need to go out and waste gas in their car and shop at different stores. Inventory levels are back to normal. So part of what could have driven people to go from store to store previously could have been, Hey, I’m actually trying to find product that’s in stock that I can get. Um, so those are two potential drivers.

What else?

Eric Grindley: I mean, I actually think that that second one is, is probably the biggest thing, right? So, you know, like when we saw the shift in COVID, um, you know, and it went from six stores on average down to basically one, maybe two. Um. You know, like the question was, would this ever return to normal? Right. Would we get back to six?

Because if it didn’t, what I had been telling people for the longest time is that like, you need to be watching this number. If this doesn’t recover, you know, um, most of your independent retailers are in big trouble because what we were seeing was that bigger brands were gobbling up market share.

Because while the independent retailer was like sitting back and not spending as much on advertising and not really going after the market as hard, the bigger brands were still spending and they were spending in order to make sure that they were staying in front of that customer and taking over that market share.

And so they’re slowly eating up the market share while you’re sitting back waiting. And then what I think we saw, what we thought was a return to normalcy where we were seeing cross shopping again. I think was literally just a factor of, um, people not being able to find things in stock and just searching for items.

And at the time we didn’t know, right? Like there was no way for us to know that that’s what it was. There was, you know, um, it could have been a return to normalcy. It could have been shopping around. I think now that we see that stock is basically normalized across the country. Um, and now we’re seeing a mass drop in cross shopping tells us what we saw was literally people just searching for product.

And so I think what we’re seeing now in this data is that that that that reduction in shopping around and not going to 6 stores anymore, um, is probably the new normal. It’s that we actually made a. A shift in, in, um, uh, in the path of purchase and the buying behavior, like, like the COVID actually changed that so dramatically that people are, you know, not shopping around as much and they only shopped around when they couldn’t find the thing that they wanted.

Um, and so they’re, they’re settling in and they’re going to those brands that they, um, uh, that they know and that they trust and they’re, they don’t have any reason to really kind of go out and look for a better deal.

Mark Kinsley: Yeah, it’s, it’s funny to think about, uh, normalcy because we haven’t really been able to use the word normal in a long time, but the, the pattern shifts that happened with the path to purchase for the average consumer, I think. Was probably dramatically and almost permanently altered by COVID in a sense that, you know, originally it was people are going to try and limit their exposure and just they’re going to get everything.

If they’re going to go to Lowe’s and try to get some landscaping project stuff, they’re going to get everything at Lowe’s they could possibly get and maybe some extra stuff. Same thing I think happened in furniture and mattress. Um, boom, I’m going to go out. I don’t want to be exposed to people and get COVID.

So I’m just going to go in. I’m going to shop on my own. I’m going to go home and I’m going to have a bunch of stuff. Well, they, they also saw, um, like a shift in, in the buying behavior that happened online. So a lot more people got familiar with doing that research and not going out and pounding the pavement.

And so the footfalls, um, you know, definitely altered those paths. So it sounds like we’re almost like going back to the behaviors. That almost got crystallized during COVID.

Eric Grindley: Yeah, I think that’s exactly what it is. I mean, I think there’s, you know, look, there’s obviously economic conditions going on now that. You know, are definitely going to play a part. Right. And, um, uh, so, you know, obviously you’re going to see people that are willing to travel less, like, you know, you already, we already see that in data where, you know, drive time and, and where you’re willing to drive to and how far you’re willing to drive for certain things is, is reduced, um, you know, for the average consumer and like.

Um, as you have economic pressures on people, um, you know, higher interest rates, like you’re going to be pushing people out of the market. So you could also be seeing some of that in the data where people are coming in and they’re finding out that like, Hey, I just simply can’t afford this right now. And so then they’re, they don’t have any to shop around because they just.

Figure there out, you know, um, so there’s a lot of things there, but, you know, I think ultimately, like what this tells me and like, what I think retailers need to take away from this is like, you know, you need to get in front of this. Um, now you need to be targeting people to bring them in first. You need to be a part of that conversation from the very beginning.

Um, you know, you have this limited window. It’s interesting when you look at the. Um, the other stat that changed was in 2022, someone was in market for about 31 days. Now in 2023, um, we’re seeing that the average is about 28 days. So that’s, that’s shortened a little bit. So, um, meeting, we, we saw them, we saw them again, and then we didn’t see them ever again after that, right?

So they have a, they have a shorter window of time now to actually capture that person. So you need to be doing things to move those people into store quicker. Um, and you need to make sure that you’re, you know, obviously moving them through the funnel a lot faster. Um, you know, when you even, even a three or four day difference, like people don’t think that’s that much, but that is actually a big difference.

Because if you were to see that same reduction next year, you know, then you’re down to, you know, 24 to 20 days in market, right? Every time that you continue to see these reductions, you’re only shortening the amount of opportunities that you have to get in front of the customer and convince them to come shop with you.

So you need to be doing things to pull them in now. And not waiting, not waiting on them to just come to you.

Mark Kinsley: What do you think are some best practices? Let’s say you’re an independent retailer out there and you’re trying to make sure that number one, you’re found in the search phase. So you can be part of the consideration set, um, and you’re advertising and spending your dollars in the right ways. I know there’s a bunch of different ways to do that because, I mean, obviously there are platforms like Esquire advertising.

Hyper targeted looking at in market shoppers. You have people that are much more comfortable with, you know, more traditional methods because that’s what they know, or their, their market may be set up for that because of demographic or age. Um, how do you, how do you think about getting out there? And in my conversations, this is anecdotal.

It seems like right now in a tough economy. People are more comfortable. These retailers are more comfortable spending money during the promotional holiday periods. So that seems to be the mindset right now. What else, uh, would you add to that, to that pile?

Eric Grindley: Um, so I think you have to think of things in the terms of conquesting rather than like, like, you know, there’s passive and active advertising, right? So you can either be very passive and sit back and like, do some of those traditional forms where you’re pushing things out and waiting for people to stumble upon you.

But in reality, you need to go out there and conquesting. What you need to figure out is like, how do I get in front of this traffic? And what I mean by that is how do I figure out? Buying signals before the person actually enters market. So I want to like get in front of them before they go into that store.

So whether or not that’s, you know, hitting people that just moved to town, um, you know, if that’s, um, targeting, uh, you know, chiropractic offices and massage places where people are obviously like in pain, having back pain and like, you know, they’re not quite thinking about like, Hey, maybe the mattress is the solution to my problem.

Right. So like you can head off these things, you know, figuring out, um, like in your market, maybe. Um, and you know, this just comes from doing an analysis of the data and understanding your customer better. But like in some locales, you know, we’ll look at like a Lowe’s and then figure out that like, Hey, like, you know, um, over a two year period of looking at data that like, you know, these customers typically would go to the Lowe’s and then like three months later, they were shopping for a mattress.

And three months after that, they were shopping for furniture, right? There’s things that indicate in our behavior, what I’m likely to shop for. And so if you can get ahead of it, then you can be the first location that they come to. Um, obviously you still need to be on Google search. Um, you have to be spending money there and spending money there appropriately.

You don’t want to be overspending, but you also don’t want to be underspending. Your job is not to compete with the biggest brands of the world. Your job is to be efficient with your dollar and make sure that you are competing on the most selective of keywords in your market that you need to be a part of.

You need to be geo targeting all of that down to a very defined area around your store. Um, because people aren’t driving as far. Right. So most mattress stores are usually placed in some sort of a, you know, shopping plaza of sorts, whether or not it’s a grocery that’s anchoring it or, you know, a home Depot, a target or, you know, restaurants, whatever it may be.

Like that plaza is your friend. People are creatures of habit. We visit the same plazas over and over and over again. Um, and so targeting the people that are going to that plaza on a regular basis, making sure that they know that you’re there and that you’re available and getting in front of them. And there’s benefits to shopping with you and benefits to, um, getting an opportunity to actually lay on a mattress rather than just buying it online.

All of that has to come into account. Um, but I would say. You know, if I was spending money on my own store in the market right now, I would be, you know, um, spending, uh, you know, probably 20 percent of my money on Google search. Um, uh, just to like, you know, be in the top keywords that I need. Um, I would be going after my in market shoppers in order to be a part of that conversation and pull that person in for that second visit, pull them away from the store that they first visited.

Um, I’d be going after new movers as they move into the market. And I know, um, you know, in the sleep industry, far too often I hear from people, they go like, well, people mostly buy mattresses from us before they move in the data. Doesn’t support that narrative. Never has, um, you know, all the data out there shows that the majority of consumers are buying mattresses after they move into the home.

And so, um, I would be targeting those new movers. And then last but not least, I would have some sort of a streaming television ad campaign going on right now. Um, you know, uh, I don’t know if you saw this recently, it just came out in the last couple of days, but you know, the NFL is basically moving towards streaming in a way from traditional television.

And so, you know, we already had about a 70 percent adoption rate across the country of streaming services. That number is going to go much, much higher with just the, the influx of the NFL customers coming into the streaming platforms. And so, um, this is one area of digital advertising right now where predominantly, um, the consumer can’t skip the commercial.

And so, um, there are ways that this can be done. Um, and like, you know, our company does this for retailers every day. That can be still cost effective. Most of the sleep retailers that I know that are out there, they don’t think that they can do this because they think that it’s cost prohibitive. It’s not, um, there are ways that it can be done and it can be cost effective.

And so, um, they need to not wait any longer on the sidelines. They need to be jumping in full force into that, um, right away.

Mark Kinsley: And I know that Esquire, you and I have talked about this, uh, all the different points of pain that you had to pay a toll along the way for the longest time in order to get into streaming TV. And I know you’ve compressed that value chain down. Uh, by partnering with Roku and actually having integration of that data.

Um, that that’s such an important point because you’re right. If people that are spending money on cable, local TV, you know, maybe that has its place, but you gotta be in the streaming services because of the pure numbers, the math, like the adoption rate of people that are on streaming. Is there, and, and that’s where they’re going to be spending their time.

That’s where the eyeballs are. And you’re going to get much richer data in return on that information. So when you put out an ad, I think the reporting is much more accurate.

Eric Grindley: Oh, yeah. I mean, like, the data is better. Obviously, like, we can track it back. So that way, like, we can actually show the ROI that they’re getting from a TV ad, which is, you know, like, what you want, right? You want to know if that TV had actually worked or not. Um, the other thing about it is that, like, um, what we found over doing this over the last couple of years is that, um, all the data shows that a person that is, um, Uh, served a television ad actually spends more in store than the average consumer works at about 400 on average.

So, um, you know, like it, and, you know, obviously like we can’t say specifically what it is, but I think what it really is doing is it’s driving the trust factor for these retailers up by advertising on TV, you really have more trust in that brand. And so then the people come in and then they’re more open to the idea and then they spend a little bit more money.

And, um, on average across the nation, it’s about 400 increase per ticket by seeing a television ad. Yeah.

Mark Kinsley: that’s a, that’s a good return. Hey, just to level set us. So, um, talking to Eric Grindley, CEO, founder of Esquire advertising. Um, Eric’s advertising technology company works heavily in the mattress and furniture industry. And just one of the things we maybe didn’t mention that as a key point, uh, when we were talking about framing up all these furniture and mattress stores and all the mattress firm locations, uh, I just want to remind people who don’t know.

What he’s talking about is it put a little like digital frame, let’s call it around the doorway and then when a device, somebody’s phone crosses through that threshold and their location services are enabled, which most of them are, if you’re getting weather on your phone, it’s enabled. That’s whenever you’re able to, what, what do you attach to that?

What, what, what gets attached to the phone at that point that you’re able to see who

Eric Grindley: So we’re actually not like we’re not attaching anything to them. We’re actually extracting them. So, um, you know, like we, the way that we do all this, you know, it’s like all hand drawn, right? So we’ve met, we’ve mapped up every furniture and mattress appliance store in the United States. You know, we have, uh, I mean.

Thousands and thousands and thousands of hours just put into framing, and we draw every frame within the four feet of the internal wall. We do that so that we can have efficiency and accuracy of the data. Um, once the device crosses into that building, you know, we’re extracting out that device using a whole host of different identifiers off that device.

Um, and, uh, once you have that. You know, we match them back to their household address. Once we have their household address, we can take over their whole ecosystem. So like, you’re not just limited to like looking at the device that was inside the store, you can see all their devices at home. So then you can serve them on their TV.

You can serve them on their Apple TV, their Amazon fire stick, their. You know, you can serve them on their iPad, their laptop. Then we can actually hop from there to their work devices. And so you can serve them at work. And so you can take over this person’s whole ecosystem. The beauty of it is that essentially what happens is that you let the data drive your marketing, right?

Like if the data is correct, the marketing becomes easy. Um, because then we know we’re targeting the right person. We know that we’re always getting real people seeing the ads. And then you can drive like higher returns and better efficiency for every dollar you spend because there’s nothing going to waste.

So, um, it is the most like, um, uh, specific, you know, hyper form of targeting that you can do. No doubt.

Mark Kinsley: And that ladies and gentlemen is one of many reasons that Eric and Esquire team made that Inc 500 list multiple times, because this is such innovative technology that does a very specific job very well. And I want to go back and put a double red underline under this idea of new movers. Because like you said, I’m sure the question might’ve come up in people’s minds as they heard that, what do you mean by new movers?

Well, people are filling out credit applications and applying for mortgages and doing different things that send a signal that I’m going to buy a house or I’m moving to a new location. So Eric’s team, I know you’re able to look at that data, pull that data in and start running campaigns around these new movers and also just like you talked about, like.

You’re, you’re attaching the devices to this. So it’s based on the person you want to get in front of and their usage of the device, not an idea of a general demographic.

Eric Grindley: No. Yeah. And like, we actually look at movers in three different ways, pre mover, escrow, and then, um, new mover, right? So someone that is about to move that has shown some indication, basically raised their hand, said, Hey, I’m moving soon. Um, and then someone that’s in escrow on a home. So anything that we have like escrow data on.

So then like you can essentially hit someone through their whole like, uh, moving process, right? Like, Hey, I’m about to move to Cincinnati. Okay. I’ve actually. Put a contract in on a home. Okay. Now I’m an escrow on that home. Okay. Now I actually move into that home. And so for the longest time, um, in like the direct mail world, you know, everybody would like target movers, but by the time you got the data back from like, you know, um, the, the, the list provider, and then you actually got the print out and then it got into circulation and got to the house.

But how you get to them is like 90 days late. You know, with us, we just took all of that and sped it up. So we started looking at more signals earlier so we could track the devices and then basically see the movement of them. And so from the moment they move into that new house, one, if they’ve, if we, if we were able to capture them as a pre or escrow, we’ve already been targeting them and we continue to target them when they actually get there.

If we weren’t able to capture them at pre or escrow, we start targeting them from the moment they actually move in. They don’t even need to establish internet in their home or have the power on because like, we’re going to be. Talking to their device, right? So from the moment that they move in, um, you know, we’re targeting with that saying, Hey, like, you know, it’s time to come get a new mattress, come to the store, right?

This is the place to shop. This is where local shop, you know, and, and you get the opportunity to tell them that message before anybody else. And, you know, you’re going to bring that buyer in, sell them. And then, you know, 60 days later, then they’re going to start getting the direct mail from everybody else in the market saying, Hey, you know, come shop with us.

It’s like, well, that’s too late. You know, and then it’s a stack of, you know, envelopes that, you know, go super high. So

Mark Kinsley: We live, we live in real time, we live in real time. And when people are solving a problem or have a pain point, they’re solving it right now. And you better be front and center. You better be top of mind. You better be on their devices. Um, let’s, let’s go there for a minute. If you’re a retailer out there and you’re thinking about where to efficiently spend your money.

This speaks to you. Um, what are some of the results that you have have had with other retailers? Because I know one of the ways you can look at ROI is if a retailer provides that sales data, you can do a match back to prove that it drove that sale. So give us some, give us some of those data points of successes that people have had or what they could expect.

Hmm.

Eric Grindley: Yeah. I mean, you know, um, we always say on a national average, like the ROI, um, will run about 10 to one to start with. Um, really what this comes down to is, um, like how quickly you can provide us with data and how many optimizations we do. Clients have been working with us for a really long time, obviously have higher ROIs because at that point.

The ads and audiences are so optimized that it’s like shooting fish in a barrel, right? Like, you know, if you’ve been working with us for five, six years, you know, it’s not unheard of that there’ll be in the, you know, 300, 400 to one even return on ad spend, because, um, you know, we are so good at selecting the audience of people to go after.

That we know that these people are likely to buy. And we have an ad that’s been so optimized, like what we’ve essentially done is taken an e commerce mentality to brick and mortar, right? Like in e commerce, you know, you, you pixel every step of the funnel, you know, where everybody’s going at every single time, you know, where they’re falling off, you know, you know, what’s working, you know, it’s not working.

Then you can, you can optimize and change in order to get to a really good ROI that you want. Well, you could never do that in brick and mortar, and that’s what our matchback allows us to do. So, um, you know, it varies depending on the industry. It varies depending on the type of store. It varies depending on their market.

And obviously, it varies depending on the size of the audience that we’re going after. Everything that we do is so customizable that, like, we work with mom and pop retailers that have one single store operation in, like, the middle of nowhere in Alabama. And then, obviously, we have You know, the top 100 furniture retailers throughout the United States.

And, you know, we have, you know, we have big and we have small, we have medium, we have, we have it all. Um, and so the ROIs are going to change vastly depending on what you look like and what the makeup of your market is, but the beauty of also being able to customize it so much. Is that when we’re working with a small retailer, the big difference is that we can make it affordable for them because we can just carve down the audience.

You know, like we are also limited sometimes in audience, which as like a business is sort of a limiting factor for us. We’re like, if I’m doing a new mover campaign for you, if you’re in the middle of nowhere and there’s only, you know, 700 movers in your market, I can only sell you a campaign for those 700 movers, which means that.

You only have to spend about 500 a month versus if we’re in Dallas, Texas, and there’s 60, 000 movers a month, right? Like I have the ability to work with more retailers there because, um, there’s more movers to go around in that sort of campaign world. So, um, you know, but ROI speaking, you know, I, most of them, it’s like in 90 days.

You should be making money and be adding to these campaigns. Um, if you’re not making money and doing what, um, we expect you to do, then you’re not going to want to continue to do it. So you’re not going to continue to do it, right? Like, you know, like, so for us, it’s like we have to perform because everything we do is in black and white at the end of the day on a matchback.

If it doesn’t create sales and ring the register. We have to show you that data and show you that we failed. So, you know, we do not like to fail. Therefore we always set this up, you know, in a way that like, we’re going to give you the best, most premium audience so that way we can drive business. Like I always tell people, like, you don’t care if I send you traffic, you don’t care if I send you clicks, the only thing you care about is whether or not the register rings, that’s the only thing we care about too, right?

Like our methods are not the norm by any means whatsoever, right? Like our campaigns do not perform like normal digital campaigns, but they At the register because we take a different approach than anybody else.

Mark Kinsley: If you like what you’re hearing, uh, come to sleep summit. Eric’s going to take the main stage. Uh, we’re going to take an even deeper dive with more unexpected insights, more data, and we’re going to do a bit of a fireside chat and you’re going to have a chance to talk to Eric, uh, meet his team and also ask questions.

That you may be having. So if you’re sitting here, you’re going, man, I, I really need to understand a piece or a part of this better. I have a specific question about how a campaign or a message or a promotion might work in my market. Get to sleep summit. So go to sleep summit, co write sleep summit. co right now, get registered.

You’re going to be there with some of the brightest minds in the betting business, including Eric. Um, and, and you can give him a hard time about the answer to this question, which is On every sleep summit show now. And the question is Eric, where is the strangest place you have ever slept?

Eric Grindley: So the strangest place that I have ever slept, um, would be on the top of a fire lookout tower. Florida. When we were in college, we came down from college and decided that we had a bright idea to climb one of those like, um, fire stations, not realizing that that is that you’re not allowed to do that. So, um, the story didn’t end up with a good ending.

We got in trouble for it for sure. But, but that’s where we were. It was in a, um, a lookout tower for the fire

Mark Kinsley: So what ended up happening when you got in trouble? Did somebody find out you were up there in the, or did you climb down and the, the, you know, the local sheriff came and got you.

Eric Grindley: Um, it was like we got surrounded by a lot of different cop cars and spotlights and, um, like it was like a big deal, like we didn’t know it was gonna be a big deal. It was, um, you know, we were just kids. So, um, but they let us go, you know, they were, they were cool about it in the end. Um, uh, but, uh, they were not happy that we, we were up there.

I mean, it’s, you know, apparently like, I guess it’s like federal property. Um, you know, you know, you know.

Mark Kinsley: somebody that built like a, like an Airbnb style house at the top of one of those that they purchased from the government. So, uh, now maybe you can, you can relive that memory, but

Eric Grindley: I know. Right. It’s a, it’s a great, it’s a, first of all, it’s a great view. So, um, I highly recommend it.

Mark Kinsley: that’s awesome. And the odds are good in this industry. You might not be the only person that’s actually slept at the top of a fire tower. So hopefully if you’ve done that, come to sleep some and talk to Eric. Eric, Hey, it’s always great chatting with you. Thank you for taking us on a deep dive into the data with, you know, 1300 mattress from stores and sleep shops and furniture stores.

Looking at that jump up to 88 percent of people are only visiting one sleep shop. That means a lot to business owners. I think right now, because that could, that could fundamentally adjust strategy at this moment in time. And the, your ability to gather real time data, apply it to businesses and make meaning of it.

Well, we’ll continue to do shows like this because I know that that path to purchase and understanding the consumer at this moment in time. Is incredibly important. You know, even looking six months back, if we’re going to do research projects and talk to people that purchased or people that intended to purchase, you’re going to get something that gives you some insights, but it’s not real time.

So thanks for, thanks for mining this data and providing some real value.

Eric Grindley: Anytime, like I’m excited about sleep summit. We’ll definitely bring some additional data and stuff to talk about. And, you know, um, uh, this is really owed to our data scientists. Like we have a team of data scientists that are working on this stuff like all the time. And, um, you know, uh, this is something that retailers, this is going on right now.

Like they’re already feeling this, you know, I mean, if you think about it, like we’re, we’re giving you the data, we’re reporting on it, but we’re late. The retailers are already seeing these effects in store right now. So, um, you know, it’d be interesting to hear from retailers that are actually seeing this effect right now.

And how it’s changing their stores on a day to day basis.

Mark Kinsley: Yeah, if you want to give us some feedback, pop over to fam. news, that’s F A M dot news. And there’s a text us box on the bottom right hand corner. So if you’re listening to the show and you do have, um, something you want to share questions, insights, text us on our podium number and, uh, we’ll hit you back and we’ll get your questions to Eric.

Um, if for some reason you’re not able to make summit. Um, Eric, thanks again, man. We’ll, we’ll circle up with you here soon. See you at sleep summit. Thank you in advance for coming and being willing to share your knowledge. And as always, if somebody wants to get in touch with you, they go to Esquire advertising.

com.

Eric Grindley: Yeah. ESQ ads. com. Thank you.

Mark Kinsley: Yes. Q ads. com. Cool. Thanks, man. Great to see you.

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